Diplomatic Crisis among Turkey and other western countries, the 3-3 proposal, and Russia`s role, EU-Georgian relations, and other issues were the topics of the Europe Time interview with MEP Rasa Jukneviciene, Lithuania Group of the European People's Party (Christian Democrats) Member, Vice-Chair of the EU-Georgia Parliamentary Association Committee.
Rasa Jukneviciene is a Lithuanian politician, who has been serving as a Member of the European Parliament since 2019. She served as Minister of Defense of Lithuania from 2008 to 2012.
_Do the upcoming elections have a special importance to the EU-Georgia relations?
Every election is important if it is democratic. The EU members carefully follow the elections, including the quality of elections, in the member states.
Of course, we are interested in the outcome of the election within the EU, because it touches upon us directly, but we are also closely following the situation in the countries like Georgia, in our Eastern Partnership states, because the political situation is not stable along our borders.
Of course, like every nation, my country - Lithuania - also experiences political instability from time to time. But the situation in Georgia is different: the process of creating stable European-type political parties that are able to talk to each other and find compromise - that is taking very long. Political parties are too tied to personalities and their conflicts, instead of being focused on certain issues.
So, the election is important for the future of Georgia and especially in terms of how ruling parties, (I mean everywhere, be it in Ukraine, Belarus, Russia or Georgian and other countries) conduct the election: whether they manage to refrain from using administrative resources, how they treat the opposition, and whether they act in a democratic way. So it is very important for Georgia and every country and we are following what is going on.
_In this regard, what issue deserves special attention from Georgia`s partners?
Judiciary System, the behavior of the ruling party, because they have a lot of resources, especially administrative ones, how money is issued and attitudes toward the opposition and justice. Supremacy of law is most important for every democracy, so here are the fundamental rights of a citizen, a fundamentally important issue for the future of Georgia. Without that, there is no possibility to think about membership in the EU and other democratic alliances.
_It is noteworthy here that Georgia is preparing to apply for full EU membership in 2024.
We were very much supportive when we got this message from the ruling party about their expectations and promises. As I understand it, they have decided to put it into their program. It is a very important message, but one thing is to make a good presentation or to make a good statement but another thing is to act as European.
This is very important for politicians, for all sides to try to act as European, to demonstrate to the European Union partners that they are ready to apply for membership. Myself, I believe that the Georgian people deserve such decisions and you have friends in the European Union and they are very much in favor. Unfortunately, sometimes your politicians don`t understand that for your friends in the European Union it does not matter so much which political party is in the government. The most important is what they are doing. Sometimes I think that some politicians in the ruling party think that if we are criticizing them, it means we are working for the opposition. Of course, it is not like this and we would just like to have Georgia together with us in our family.
So, I am hopeful. And I saw the results of the opinion poll that more than half of Georgians are in favor of the European Path and want Georgia to become a member of the European Union in the future. But for that Georgians need successful European reforms. And if Georgia is not back to the path of these pro-European reforms, especially the rule of law, it will be very difficult to believe that Georgia will be ready for such an appeal in 2024.
_Acceleration of European integration is the goal of the Association trio countries Georgia, Ukraine, and Moldova. How do you evaluate their ambitions?
We work very hard here, in the European Parliament to convince the politicians from different political groups that the Association Trio strategy is the only way to have the breakthrough in the Eastern Partnership. But it depends mainly on the countries. Today I see that Moldova is becoming a front-runner in its aspirations. Ithas very strong aspirations and the political will to become a European country by making the reforms. They are Europeans, but have to come as as close to the European Union as possible.
Georgia has always been a front runner. Georgia has been the leader in the democratization in the region, but now many friends among the Greens, Liberals, Social Democrats, Conservatives at the European Parliament are very disappointed. Eespecially, after the agreement brokered by the EU’s Charles Michel's was rejected: when one opposition party refused to sign it and afterwards the ruling party annulled it. In such circumstances, what can the EU do for Georgia? The proposal from the highest level was rejected. Now everyone hesitates to try to do something. Of course, the Trio is very important, but disappointment is making the situation worse. More needs to be done. The EU aspirations are inseparable from the democratization of the country, justice, the rule of law, the fight with corruption, the necessary reforms.
_The country also aspires to NATO membership. The experience of your country is also interesting in this regard.
NATO is also an organization for democracies. So, this is also very important. I remember our aspirations to become a member of NATO before 2004, we had the same requirements on the table. NATO membership is not only about military reforms, it refers to the state efforts, including many other challenging issues. If Georgia gets back to the path of successful pro-European reforms, it means that Georgia will be closer and closer to NATO membership. So, this is almost the same process, but I am very much in favor of Georgia and Ukraine to become members of NATO.
I think it was a mistake when in 2008 those countries were not invited to a membership action plan. But this is history now. Today, your country has to do even more to convince the leading countries in NATO to make this decision because we have Russia next to our borders, which is very much against NATO enlargement. It makes matters much more complicated.. So you need more successful reforms than before. It is a hard job. You need more active work to do in capitals.. Without good messages to the reforms of your country, it will not be a good environment to make decisions.
If the countries in the European Union or NATO will see that they might admit into the club some trouble makers, some countries with big problems that are permanently in the political crisis, well, the politicians that are making the decisions might not have the best feelings about that.
First of all, you need to have some kind of an agreement among the political parties, at least to start to speak. At least to start trying to find a common ground for this very nice nation and its future. At least to have a signature on a common statement, for example about NATO and EU membership, to elaborate necessary steps that the country needs to take in terms of the reforms and the political environment in the country.
Without that agreement among the politicians from all sides of the political spectrum, with such battles when the leader of oppositions is in prison, when the former president is in prison, when justice is under the concern, you can make one appeal statement after another on how you want to become a member of NATO. If it is followed by bad news from Georgia, I am not sure if any politician will be happy to make such decisions on MAP or membership.
Maybe I sound pessimistic, but I know that in the long term Georgia will be part of NATO, EU. However, on the other hand, today I don´t see a responsible political society, be it one or another political group to go together for that. And Russia, the Kremlin is doing also their job. They are trying to keep this chaos going. And this is what concerns you mainly, because we, your friends at the European Parliament, cannot even do more for Georgia when we, for example, are attacked by your Prime Minister.
_You mentioned Russia and I`d like to ask you about the 3+3 format. As regards the 3-3 proposal, our international partners say that Russia should focus on honoring the 2008 ceasefire commitments, before promoting any new discussion platform...
Russia`s plans are very clear. They want to keep Georgia far from NATO and the European Path. They think this is an alternative for Georgia. So it is Georgia`s choice to go or not. So I would be very careful when Russia is somewhere inside, on the side of one or another alliance. Georgia has to be back on the path of successful pro-European reforms and does not have to fight against European Union or someone in European Parliament.
It is hard to say how to be back on the same track as it was proposed by Charles Michel and how to deal with European Union Leadership, but this is a task for your government.
On the other hand, I think that Georgia needs some kind of restart at the highest political level, a new drive. Before your leaders take responsibility and stop this very brutal fight between Ivanishvili-Saakashvili, it will not be easy to overcome the situation. And only Russia will benefit from that situation.
It will also depend on the people, if there is enough wise understanding of the importance of the free media, a stable political system, and the rule of law. It is up to the people. I understand that many people think about how to survive in the current economic situation, but Russia will not provide a better economy to Georgia. There is a different statehood in the European Union. Look at the Baltic states - today and before the membership.
_How will NATO member Turkey's recent tensions with the West affect its future relations, given that Turkey supports Georgia's membership in the alliance?
I think it will be solved. As I see, every side wants to deescalate the situation. Turkey is a very important country geopolitically. I am happy that Turkey is a great supporter of Georgia’s NATO membership and you have to keep this going and good relations with Turkey for Georgia are crucial. But on the other hand, we have to be very careful when it is something new with Russian participation, I mean Kremlin participation.
I understand that some kind of disappointment comes when still MAP was not provided for Georgia, but you have to be patient. Of course, the time will come. Of course, NATO decisions are taken by all countries together, so it is not enough that, for example, Lithuania and the USA are supporters. We need consensus to make decisions. All countries are important in NATO.
